tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post8641820288186393102..comments2024-03-28T20:30:37.506+01:00Comments on Epiphany: “Spray Fire in my Head” and how putting it out with Verapamil links Histamine, IL6, Mast cells, Calcium Channel Cav1.2, and even the Vagus NervePeter Lloyd-Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-8275569212425660742024-03-08T21:19:37.383+01:002024-03-08T21:19:37.383+01:00Verapamil blocks several ion channels but its grea...Verapamil blocks several ion channels but its greatest effect is on Cav1.2 whereas Amlodipine has greatest effect on Cav1.3.<br /><br />So the effects of the 2 drugs should be somewhat different. I do not see any cognitive or speech benefit from Verapamil. One reader saw a cognitive/speech benefit from Amlodipine, so I tried it.<br /><br />Verapamil needs to be taken 3 times a day, whereas Amlodipine is long lasting and so you can take it once a day. I give it before breakfast with all the other pills. This makes things very simple.<br /><br />I would go back to Verapamil for summertime raging if needed. I now add Pioglitazone during spring and summer and have not needed to switch back from Amlodipine to Verapamil.<br /><br />Pioglitazone is a diabetes drug that has actually been trialed in autism. It has some specific anti-inflammatory properties that fit our summertime raging.Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-77320903029810548852024-03-08T19:22:20.770+01:002024-03-08T19:22:20.770+01:00Also, we were instructed not o give once daily (fi...Also, we were instructed not o give once daily (first thing in morning), which I assume is common with this drug. <br /><br />Let me know if this is the way you’ve given it in your situation. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-63777481755091163472024-03-08T19:13:23.220+01:002024-03-08T19:13:23.220+01:00Many thanks. I’ll be sure to update this entry w...Many thanks. I’ll be sure to update this entry with what we see with Amlodipine. <br /><br />Last questions for now: with verapamil, we could see results in 30-45 minutes. What about Amlodipine? <br /><br />When we give it, does it work that way (that quickly) in the calcium signaling in the brain, or take longer to see an effect for our purposes of mast cells, rage, anxiety. <br /><br />Have you seen it provide a “anti-degranulization” effect to mast cells for the hours in between the next daily dose. <br /><br />Lastly, curious why you tried Amlodipine. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-39771255001917104192024-03-07T11:34:12.806+01:002024-03-07T11:34:12.806+01:00We had no negative effects. We had no negative effects. Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-10645870527641365442024-03-07T11:19:39.163+01:002024-03-07T11:19:39.163+01:00The dose I use adjusted for your son's weight ...The dose I use adjusted for your son's weight is 1.6 mg once a day.Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-79508631167942978452024-03-07T03:31:42.440+01:002024-03-07T03:31:42.440+01:00Hey thank you so much for the reply. I brought a...Hey thank you so much for the reply. I brought amlodipine up to doctor today and they are open to it. Was curious on dosage for this purpose of preventing mast cell degranulation. He’s 93 lbs 14 years old. She mentioned taking the 2.5 mg tablet and quartering it and starting one a quarter a day of that tablet and see. That would be .63 mg/day. What was your son’s experience in dosage if you don’t mind sharing. Thanks a millionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-5244707859654817132024-03-06T11:38:32.903+01:002024-03-06T11:38:32.903+01:00If it was me I would try Verapamil without the Ris...If it was me I would try Verapamil without the Risperidone.<br /><br />You could try a different calcium channel blocker. In our case Amlodopine also works well. It is similar but not the same as Verapamil.<br /><br />All these drugs have multiple effects and odd reactions can be expected.Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-43903344069986554882024-03-06T03:53:05.753+01:002024-03-06T03:53:05.753+01:00Hi Peter thanks for your work. Bought your book an...Hi Peter thanks for your work. Bought your book and have been reading your blog for 3-4 years. Recently tried verapamil for my 14 year old son with rage episodes, etc and it was remarkable for that at 20mg 2- 3 times a day. Good mood, etc. Then at day 4-5 a very noticeable increase in OCD which has been a key issue of his as well, but triggered in the past with brain inflammation (pans pandas diagnosed in 2022 treated with Ivig). Would you have any perspective into why his ocd would increase 4-5 days into the trial and not dissipate over the course of this trial? No other side effects. He is on low dose risperidone (.65 mg) and I’ve wondered if that complicates things but I’m doubtful on that. Could it be binding affinity of verapamil to serotonin or melatonin? Could it be something with cerebral calcium from ER stress and adding verapamil just is too much and interrupts the neurotransmitter signaling. Pretty encouraging but discouraged at the same time. My feeling is it still points to mast cell relief as we’ve seen similar relief from Claritin for example. But maybe a different calcium blocker? What are your thoughts on this phenomenon we are experiencing with verapamil? Thanks againAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-64522559594801209922023-08-03T00:38:25.122+02:002023-08-03T00:38:25.122+02:00Thanks - again - for sharing your profound insight...Thanks - again - for sharing your profound insight. I have ordered quercetin. Will write here after we have trialed it.<br /><br />As for the allergy medications, we are switching between levocetirizine and fexofenadine, as these should be the least sedative and he is struggling with fatigue. Fexofenadine has a longer half life, but he needs the adult dose to get enough effectiveness. I will look into your recommendations 👍<br />Have just "ordered" genetic testing (whole genome sequencing) and perhaps it can (also) tell us if something is up with how he metabolizes meds, since he needs higher doses of antihistamines.<br /><br />Best regards<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-40288551210523819232023-07-30T20:32:00.275+02:002023-07-30T20:32:00.275+02:00Cromolyn sodium is a good mast cell stabilizer. Ke...Cromolyn sodium is a good mast cell stabilizer. Ketotifen is another option. It all depends where you live and so what options you have. Not all antihistamines are equal and you can try several and see what works best. I like Cetirizine and Azalastine, but people respond differently.<br />Many people with mast cell issues take more than one antihistamine. Quercetin is also worth a try.Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-50461055368464422342023-07-30T13:58:24.727+02:002023-07-30T13:58:24.727+02:00Hi Peter
Do you know any alternative to verapamil ...Hi Peter<br />Do you know any alternative to verapamil for my son (10 y.o) - he has low blood pressure and gets dizzy from verapamil. I am wondering if there are any other mast stabilizing agents as an alternative? He has allergies and are treated for that. I am sure there is an inmunological component in his autism - both because of the allergies but also because of his tendency to easily get really high fevers.<br /><br />I started seing autistic traits in him from age 2,5-3. He seemed to regress on several parameters after some infections: regression was socially, he was more and more withdrawed, he developed echolalia and he started loosing blander control for a period of time, after having had full control. <br />Our psychiatrist says that regressive autism is quite rare, but I'm sure there was (and is) signs of regression, even though it is not severe enough to be called regressive autism.<br /><br />Best regards Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-52339087904126075982022-08-01T00:39:29.500+02:002022-08-01T00:39:29.500+02:00Thank you so much!
I just read over the paper. I...Thank you so much! <br /><br />I just read over the paper. It appears that calcium ions are also used in the production of inflammatory mediators, which just adds to the benefits of using verapamil. <br /><br />I also found this paper by Dr. Theoharides interesting. He created a novel flavone, methlut, which he found to be a stronger mast cell inhibitor than luteolin. He wrote that "the mechanism of action for methlut might be due to its ability to inhibit intracellular calcium level increases."<br /><br />Since you have been using verapamil for so long, I am sure this is not news to you. <br /> <br />The novel flavone tetramethoxyluteolin is a potent inhibitor of human mast cells<br />https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091674914015747Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-36216783349158744032022-07-31T14:09:56.233+02:002022-07-31T14:09:56.233+02:00Nothing is simple. Here is another extract from a...Nothing is simple. Here is another extract from a different paper:<br /><br />https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5788213/<br /><br />"Calcium channel blockers (CCBs) such as verapamil exert their cardiovascular effects by blocking voltage-dependent L-type calcium channels. Increased calcium influx through type L calcium channels causes the activation of various signaling cascades, such as reactive oxygen and nitrogen species and activation of proinflammatory cytokines. According to previous studies, verapamil can inhibit the production of inflammatory cytokines such as TNF-α, IL-1 and IL-6 and increase plasma levels of inflammatory cytokines such as IL-10."<br /><br />This would appear to contradict the previous paper.<br /><br />We also have to remember that even IL-6 can be both a pro-inflammatory and an anti-inflammatory cytokine. In chronic inflammation it is pro-inflammatory. Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-66154054797292768402022-07-30T10:31:42.970+02:002022-07-30T10:31:42.970+02:00Hi Peter,
I had a question when reading your pos...Hi Peter, <br /><br />I had a question when reading your post. Since, verapamil activates the Nf-KB transcription factor and increases expression of the IL-6 gene, wouldn't this mean verapamil has pro-inflammatory effects as well?<br /><br />In the paper on the IL-6 gene you linked, the researchers wrote that "the increase of IL-6 ... was independent of a concomitant increase of IL-1a, IL-1b, or TNF-a." <br /><br />Perhaps the tiny pro-inflammatory effects verapamil has is outweighed by the tremendous benefits it has for allergies?<br /><br />Thanks again for sharing your expertise on such an important topic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-53817848549619890142021-01-11T17:19:52.357+01:002021-01-11T17:19:52.357+01:00Linda, calcium channel blockers are all slightly d...Linda, calcium channel blockers are all slightly different. The effects of Verapamil will overlap with the effects of Amlodipine, but there will be differences. <br /><br />Some people using Verapamil for autism are actually benefiting from its effect not on L-type channels, but on Q channels like Cav2.1.<br /><br />I looked at the research and then picked Verapamil. It worked so I never tried anything else.<br /><br />If Amlodipine is beneficial, do let us know.Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-32344370339262728082021-01-11T15:58:42.120+01:002021-01-11T15:58:42.120+01:00I have access to the calcium channel blocker calle...I have access to the calcium channel blocker called amlodipine. Is it comparable to verapamil?<br />Thank you!Linda Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05275467096414931056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-63118179869903934902020-10-14T10:12:03.524+02:002020-10-14T10:12:03.524+02:00prada, Verapamil's effect on anxiety/aggressio...prada, Verapamil's effect on anxiety/aggression is within an hour of the very first dose. Give it to her at a time you will be able to observe her behavior for next couple of hours. <br /><br />I would start with just a single 20mg dose. In Monty's case a single dose was enough to see the benefit, he went from anxious/stressed/aggressive to calm. I would make the trial at a time of day you are not giving the supplements. <br /><br />Verapamil's effect on GI issues will take a little longer, but if this is going to happen, it will develop over then next days. Peter Lloyd-Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10173383229834614994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-85464633326838040062020-10-13T22:32:29.344+02:002020-10-13T22:32:29.344+02:00Hi Peter I got my hands on some verapamil of 80 mg...Hi Peter I got my hands on some verapamil of 80 mg. I want to try a trial starting Thursday because my daughter is free from school for 4 days. My daughter is 8 y, with severe autism, around 25 kg so I plan to start with 20 mg (to cut the pill somewhat in 4 parts) one dose in the morning and one in the early afternoon. My daughter dose not takes any medicine at the moment beside lactulose for constipation she takes also melatonine 3 mg at night and some vitamins (B complex, D, B12, folinic acid, etc minerals (mag, zn) and amino acids (serine, threonine, glutamine and arginine) and some herb tincture for SIBO. Do you think I cand give her verapamil in the same time with her routine supplement cocktail? After how long do I will know that she is a responder? Thank you for any thought! pradanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-28662703186501385862020-06-21T11:08:41.836+02:002020-06-21T11:08:41.836+02:00Hi Rhyothemis
Did you try TENS device? Pls share ...Hi Rhyothemis<br /><br />Did you try TENS device? Pls share feedback in case you did.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />RahulAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11178128635865059832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-655962722302095847.post-87493728397932631522018-12-08T20:24:44.644+01:002018-12-08T20:24:44.644+01:00Transcutaneous auricular vagal nerve stimulation (...Transcutaneous auricular vagal nerve stimulation (basically TENS on the ear lobe) is supposed to improve vagal nerve tone and autonomic function. I am planning on trying it, but before I do I want to monitor my heart rate variability (a good marker for autonomic function) for a while to get a baseline and then see if it actually improves HRV.<br />https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/make-your-own-vagus-nerve-stimulator.59129/Rhyothemishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04513987913493684171noreply@blogger.com